Jonathan Van Ness became emotional while discussing transgender rights on the latest episode of Dax Shepard’s “Armchair Expert” podcast Monday.
The “Queer Eye” star, 36, and the “Punk’d” alum, 48, first got into a cordial debate about whether the New York Times is “anti-trans.”
They cited an opinion piece the outlet published titled, “In Defense of J.K. Rowling,” following the “Harry Potter” author’s controversial remarks about the transgender community.
However, things took a turn when the conversation shifted to the ongoing discourse about whether trans people should be allowed to compete in sports alongside cis men and women. The topic quickly “triggered” Van Ness.
“I could just cry because I’m so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to be included,” the Netflix star, who goes by they/them pronouns, said.
Van Ness also argued that sports are “inherently dangerous” and “extremely unfair,” noting socioeconomic issues that affect whether a child can afford costly hobbies like golf or figure skating.
Shepard then responded, “Let’s fix those things that are unfair.”
Van Ness argued that the exclusion of trans people from athletics altogether was, in their opinion, too strong of a punishment.
Earlier in the episode, Shepard criticized the fact that open dialogues about transgender issues are not applauded more and that people should be able to ask questions.
“This whole notion that to be critical or to question … to even question it makes you an enemy, I don’t think that’s the way forward,” the “Parenthood” alum said.
Van Ness then responded, “I feel like I’m talking to my dad.”
Shepard told the hairstylist that he “did not at all intend” to get into a debate with them, adding, “I adore you. I think that you’re hysterical and talented and I love that you’re an activist.”
After Van Ness began to tear up the first time, the comedian reiterated, “Sincerely, I did not want you to come in here and then challenge your position on any of these things.”
“I understand,” Van Ness replied. “I’m not disappointed in you, I’m just emotionally exhausted.”
The “Getting Curious with Jonathan Van Ness” host admitted that even though they have publicly come out as non-binary, they often question whether that was done to protect themselves from fully transitioning.
“I still struggle with my gender expression,” the TV personality told Shepard, while tearing up again. “I don’t know that I don’t live like this because I’m scared of the vitriol that trans people face every day.
“People are like, ‘You’re so authentic,’ ‘You’re so brave.’ I’m not. I am and I’m not.”
However, Shepard reassured them, “The way you live your life is much more brave than someone doing a flip on a motorcycle.”
After the “Armchair Expert” podcast was released, Van Ness took to Instagram Tuesday to continue the conversation about “transphobia in sports.”
They said in part, “When we take away the rights of kids to play sports with their peers … we are doing a huge injustice to trans kids for just not letting them play.”
