Marc Maron‘s recent HBO standup special “From Bleak to Dark,” yes, touches on subjects that might be considered bleak and dark. But of course, it’s much more than that. Sure, Maron opens the special by pointing out that society seems to be on a collision course with disaster, and there’s little that can be done about it. But, as the comedian, actor and podcaster tells PvNew‘s Awards Circuit Podcast, he’s just being a realist.
“There’s a truth to it,” he says. “And I think that the first 15 or 20 minutes of that special addresses a lot of things in in a fairly broad way, because I wanted it to have some longevity. The negative things I talk about aren’t going anywhere. But also framing the special like that, like ‘I don’t want to be negative, I don’t think anything’s ever gonna get better ever again,’ is an acceptance. If you have acceptance around that, it gives you a bit of freedom of mind. There’s a sort of ‘zero fuckness’ to it.”
Maron visited PvNew in April to talk about a wide range of issues, including his special — and how he addressed the loss of his partner, filmmaker Lynn Shelton, during the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. He also takes on comedians who hide behind being “anti-woke,” shares his concerns over how Netflix has impacted comedy, gives his take on Record Store Day, talks about his guest role on Season 2 of “Reservation Dogs,” as well as some of his upcoming projects. Listen below!
“Marc Maron: From Bleak to Dark,” discusses everything from grief to fascism. Maron calls it some of “the best stuff I’ve ever done in terms of addressing culture, politics, personal things, you know, the things that are foreboding,” along with his previous special, 2020’s “End Times Fun” (for Netflix).
But “From Bleak to Dark” takes an even more personal turn as the comedian addresses the death of Shelton. “It was a whole new chapter beginning for her and for us,” he says. “You never expect anything, it was just terrible. Having to deal with it, the practicalities of all of it, given that no one was mobile (because of COVID), and I didn’t really know her family, it was traumatic and leveling on many levels. And there was really nowhere to go with it.”
Maron says he felt the need to work through some of the depth of shock and sadness on stage. “I didn’t know what else to do with it,” he says. “It was sort of a necessity. And I think I have always processed things on stage. I don’t know if that’s a great decision, but the comics that I respect and admire have done that. In my mind, primarily Pryor.”
Maron said that early workshopping, at places like Dynasty Typewriter, were not easy. “It was not funny at first, and sometimes I would cry, and I would sometimes not figure out where to go with the feelings. But I was fairly committed. Not unlike when I did the podcast following her death. I didn’t really know what else to do. I also believed that whatever I was going through was a common human experience. One of the worst ones, but no one gets out of life not experiencing loss. So I thought to go public, in that state, certainly that quickly… I didn’t have to, my producer was like, ‘We don’t have to ever do the podcast again, if you don’t want to.’ And I’m like, ‘Well, I think we should honor what we do. And this is where I’m at. And I’ll put myself out there.’ I don’t feel like it was self-serving to put myself out there in that vulnerable place. And I certainly did not want to be seen as the victim in the situation. I think there was two things going on, I thought, I have to share this emotional state, but also I don’t want to be looked at as a sympathetic character. I mean, she’s the one who died.”
Maron said he worked hard to be as respectful as possible to Shelton in his monologue, and especially to her family (whom he hasn’t heard from). “It took a long time to work that stuff, to a place where I want to be respectful of her,” he says. “I tried to be respectful of her family in a way, but it was my experience. I don’t have any regrets. But any apprehensions in light of the special is I don’t know how it was received by her people. I’ve heard from some of her friends, but I haven’t heard from her family.
“My experience is that the sadness will always be there,” he says. “You’re talking about the tragic death of somebody prematurely who you loved. So the sadness is always going to be there. How do you balance that? And how do you balance it in a way where you’re not going too far to where it’s dismissive or too broad?”
In particular, Maron says that a joke that he does at the beginning of the section about Shelton, he had not rehearsed and had done only one other time. “That beat where where I say, ‘The day she died was a terrible terrible day for me — and I’m sure for her as well.’ It’s a little callous and it’s almost like a classically structured Jewish joke beat. I’d not done it before. As a transition, though, it is a good bridge for the audience to realize that I’ve got a handle on this. It was just a one liner, and then the deeper stuff comes after that.”
Beyond that, Maron addresses a wide range of other topics in the special as well, including the state of standup comedy. In particular, he finds that comics who whine that political correctness, or “wokeness,” is limiting their material, is “a very hackneyed position. A lot of people who whine about being canceled, no one can give a shit about,” he says. “It’s a hack point of view. I think what I say in the special is that, we’re all just trying to find our way of saying the same three things. If you want to go up there, and hammer liberals or trans culture or LGBTQ, like, it’s just hack. That there’s a type of comic mind out there, and they think they have to go up and address trans people. You don’t. You’re just getting juice from it.
“For me, in that special, I was like, ‘I’m going to take real emotional risks here.’ Whatever risk you think you’re taking by diminishing marginalized people or people who are already struggling, it’s not real. It’s a device you’ve stolen to avoid actually talking about who you are and how you feel, because you don’t have the courage to do that.”
Maron says he knows comedy hasn’t ever just been about punching up instead of punching down. The history of standup includes plenty of bullying. But yet, the group of comics who, under an umbrella of ‘free thinking’ and ‘anti woke,’ Maron says he doesn’t get. “Why wouldn’t you want to be woke?” he says. Tolerance, on some level, is necessary for dem democracy to work. But now, there is no tolerance and wokeness has somehow become bad thing in the mind of people. I see that is just there like apparatchiks there. Whether they know it or not, a lot of these comics are just being used by right wing ideology to justify this division. And also this sort of sense of homogenous culture, which is, you know, fundamentally white, Christian, and intolerant.”
Meanwhile, Maron says he’s already at work on a new standup special. “I really didn’t take any break after the special dropped,” he says. “I just started going to the Comedy Store again and trying to pick up some threads of the old stuff and finding a new direction. I think I’ve got about a half hour, 40 minutes of stuff right now. That is fun for me, because over the years, I’ve gained a little more confidence and a little more ability to be a little lighter, a little less hard on myself. I’m enjoying just fooling around with these jokes that are coming. Toying with them and making them work.”
Beyond that, Maron has been attached to a dark comedy movie written by Rob Burnett (“Late Night with David Letterman”) and produced by Nicky Weinstock. He’s also in an episode of Prime Video’s new “The Horror of Dolores Roach.” And he booked a small role in Melissa McCarthy’s upcoming Christmas movie “Bernard and the Genie.” “I like to challenge myself a bit,” he says of the role. “It;s a recurring cameo kind of a goofy role, but it got me to New York, and maybe enough bread to cover my union healthcare. I got to hang out with her for three days. It was fun.”
PvNew’s “Awards Circuit” podcast, produced by Michael Schneider, is your one-stop listen for lively conversations about the best in film and television. Each week “Awards Circuit” features interviews with top film and TV talent and creatives; discussions and debates about awards races and industry headlines; and much more. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify or anywhere you download podcasts. New episodes post weekly.
