SPOILER alert: This post contains spoilers for Season 2 of “Unstable,” now streaming on Netflix.
Rob Lowe and his son John Owen Lowe always knew that playing characters whose dynamic closely resembled their real-life one would force them to relive and re-examine parts of their own relationship. But for the second season of their Netflix comedy “Unstable” — in which Rob plays eccentric biotech entrepreneur Ellis Dragon, and John Owen co-stars as Ellis’ high-strung son, Jackson — the Lowes wanted to lean even more into the “metaness” of the series.
“It took doing a TV show with each other for Rob and I to re-explore some of the deeper parts of our interpersonal relationship, so we figured, why not make it so that Ellis and Jackson have to literally play characters in order for them to work through an interpersonal conflict?” John Owen tells PvNew. “It’s literally a wink at what we’re doing on the show for our father-son relationship.”
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And so, in Episode 7, titled “Ron Tabasco,” Ellis and Jackson end up crashing a small-town real-estate convention, where they adopt fake identities and are finally able to get to the root of the tension in their strained relationship.
“The notion that these two people are having to play fake people to speak openly about how they really feel about each other was such a smart concept, and I loved it when they pitched it to me,” Rob says. “And to play two characters — playing Ellis Dragon playing a fake realtor named Ron Tabasco — is exactly why I signed up to do this show!”
“The scene where we might actually physically fight was one of my favorite things to shoot in the entire season, because it’s so absurd,” Rob adds. “It captured the essence of the comedy of the show that I love, which feels very weirdly true, very pushed and super absurdist.”
In a wide-ranging interview, the Lowes — who also serve as the show’s executive producers — open up about how their actual relationship has informed the writing and acting of “Unstable,” and weigh in on the ever-present “nepo baby” conversation. Rob Lowe also offers a tribute to his Fox procedural, “9-1-1: Lone Star,” which he believes will be ending with the upcoming fifth season (even though the network and studio have not announced that the show has been canceled).
How did you and the rest of the creative team want “Unstable” to evolve between Seasons 1 and 2?
John Owen Lowe: I think it’s traditional for comedies to find their footing in the first season, and then do a postmortem and figure out what really worked, what was really funny, what landed and what you want to build on. I’m really proud of our second season, in that I think we drilled down on the funny.
I think the second season is harder on the comedy, and the story is more streamlined. We built out the world. We added fun characters with LaMorne Morris as Peter, a potential foil, and Iris [Apatow] as Georgia, a potential love interest. And beyond that, I think we really wanted to get deeper into the meta between Rob and I’s characters.
Rob Lowe: Yeah, that’s always been the center of the show — that was the whole point of doing it. I think we just really ran all the storylines this year into, how does it affect the father-son dynamic? So every storyline is an offshoot of that, and within that, where is the hardest comedy we can get to?
John Owen: In the writers’ room for the second season, most mornings were spent with the room discussing traumatic or funny moments of Rob and I’s relationship, so that we could mine data into what Jackson and Ellis would be experiencing in Season 2.
Are there specific elements of your real-life relationship that become even more apparent this season?
John Owen: Oh, there’s a lot — so much so that I think we end up reliving old patterns, and it’s maddening at times. We explored my dad’s overbearing nature to blow through boundaries when it comes to my dating life and my love life. [There’s] the way that we express our masculinity and competitive nature through sports, specifically tennis, and how that brings up our competitiveness.
Moving out was a big thing in our lives. I remember when my brother first moved out, and then when I moved out and made [my parents] empty nesters, it was a huge deal. So there’s a storyline about Jackson moving out in Season 2 and how Ellis handles that. Most of it revolves around breaking interpersonal boundaries. That seems to be a recurring theme.
Rob: From my perspective, it’s how to continue to father through the changing tides of your kids’ lives, and not giving up. It’s still feeling like you have wisdom and experience to contribute to somebody who wants to learn some of these lessons on their own — and sometimes the hard way — which is universal to all parents. Which I think is one of the fun things about the show.
John Owen: That’s the nice way of putting it.
The second season ends with Ellis announcing that he is not returning to his biotech company Dragon and, instead, is running for president of the United States. Why did you decide to settle on that cliffhanger, and what kinds of conversations have you already had with the rest of the creative team about where a prospective third season would pick up?
Rob: We used to get lucky on “The West Wing” a lot where Aaron Sorkin would write something, we would shoot it, it would be edited, it would sit in the can and it would finally air weeks or months later at the exact same time that that story is actually happening. So the notion that we had of Ellis running for president — we had no idea how timely it would end up being in a time where, for the last week, nobody knows who’s running, who’s doing what, what the hell’s going on. It’s chaos. So it’s kind of a fun time to explore that.
I can’t wait to see Ellis stumble his way through, and probably be kind of brilliant in his own way in just putting together his campaign. I want to see Fred Armisen [who plays Ellis’ live-in therapist, Leslie] running a campaign, maybe Jackson being Bobby Kennedy to Ellis’ Jack Kennedy. We’re very focused on Ellis being super excited about Jackson becoming the first son.
John Owen: Yeah, “the First Boy,” actually, was the terminology.
Rob: The First Boy!
John Owen: In exploring where a potential third season would go, our brains immediately went to Ellis not caring much about his actual debate that he’ll have to have with his opponent. His ego would inform him that that won’t really be an issue, but that he will heavily focus on the potential of a “First Boy” debate against his opponent’s child. So he will be preparing Jackson heavily for that, and feeling like he needs to be incredibly involved.
Rob: By the way, it’s not the worst idea I’ve ever heard. I think we could learn a lot about our candidates by having their kids debate each other. I’m actually not kidding!
John Owen: But truly, I would say that one of the main reasons we love the idea of Ellis running for president is that we’re always looking for mediums through which Ellis can feel validated in integrating himself even more in Jackson’s life. I think this is the peak of that. once you get involved in politics at the highest level, everyone’s family business becomes public. I think that’s when Ellis will feel completely vindicated in thinking that he can over-involve himself in Jackson’s life.
In the finale, Ellis tells Jackson, “I shouldn’t try to control you. Much less who you date. I do, however, insist on final breeding approvals. I don’t kid about bloodlines.” Rob, how involved are you in John Owen’s personal life?
Rob: More so now! The stakes are higher. John Owen wasn’t potentially going to get married at 16. So I want everyone thoroughly vetted.
John Owen: This is what I mean by meta. I’m literally living out that storyline in Season 2 currently with my dad at all times. I’m doing my best to keep up healthy boundaries. But if I’m having lunch with a romantic interest and my dad pops by, he’s taking a seat to talk with her for an hour, which is, perhaps, something that has happened.
Rob: Or if I want to know, “Hey, how’s New York treating you? What did you do last night?” And I get: “Oh, I had dinner, nothing.” I’m like, “And?! You had dinner with nothing?”
John Owen: No, no, no. He’s using this interview now as a means to fish for gossip about my life — and it’s not going to work.
Rob: I’m learning as I go. I’m in a brave new world here. I’ve got kids pushing 30. I can see the next chapter, even if they can’t. And by God, I’m going to reverse engineer it, if it’s the last thing I do.
John Owen: That’s a terrifying quote.
At one point in the second season, Jackson says, “I’ll never have my own identity. In 30 years from now, I could win the Nobel Prize, and somebody in the audience would say, ‘That guy got help from his dad.’” John Owen, I can’t help but feel like that is a recurring conversation in your own life. How has your relationship with the public-facing image of your father changed over time? And as someone who has been a beneficiary of his success, how have you dealt with having that looming shadow over your personal and professional lives?
John Owen: That’s a great question, and I am glad you highlighted that moment. I remember when we cracked that moment in the writers’ room and actually wrote that, it was really profound — and I loved acting that moment. It felt real, because it’s true. And by the way, my emotional relationship to it has changed and evolved, but I know that feeling.
I do feel like I could go and write something after “Unstable,” or “Unstable” could get — let’s manifest it — nominated for an Emmy, or I could write something else that gets nominated for an Emmy, and I could be on stage accepting an award and there’s going to be people that look at me and think, “He’s only up there because of his dad, or because of his connections, or because of the doors that were opened for him.” I have learned to be at peace with that — because, look, there’s a part of it that is true, of course.
I think the thing that I have learned to be grateful for and to stay mindful of is that my work ethic is what will keep me around, and actually help me find longevity in this industry. I can both be grateful for what’s been provided to me and continue to push myself.
That’s a really balanced answer. Other so-called “nepo babies” don’t always want to acknowledge that they were born with a leg up in this industry, in part because they believe that an admission of that privilege would take away from their own talents or hard work.
John Owen: I found personally that I had to face it head-on. Ignoring it didn’t feel true to form. It’s a very real thing — and I don’t want to speak to other people’s relationships to it. Everyone has their own and they’re entitled to it. But I know personally, if I were to come out and say, “Hey, this is something I don’t want to talk about,” or if I were to say something like, “Actually, it’s made my career harder,” none of that is true. It’s not true in my experience, and I have to be honest.
I hope that all people are looking for in that regard is self-awareness, because humility and gratitude seem to be the resolution for the emotional conflict I feel around that — because there is some and there always will be. And I chose to write a show about it, and do a show with my dad. I made that bed, and I got to sleep in it.
Rob, what’s your take on this “nepo baby” conversation?
Rob: It’s funny: I think the last time New York magazine coined a term as new and widely accepted and zeitgeisty as “nepo baby” was probably when they coined the term the “Brat Pack.” So I’ve kind of been there for both of them. I understand the curiosity and appreciate it, but I don’t have the same kind of intensity around it. Nobody thinks twice when your kid joins the family plumbing business, or becomes a painter or an architect or a dentist, or becomes a second-generation doctor. So I don’t really see the novelty of it, but I understand it. I happily opened doors for Johnny in this business and my son Matthew, who’s an attorney. That’s what dads do, if they can. But the other side of it is — they’ve got to walk through the door. It’s like, you can get them on the team, but if they don’t put points on the board, they’re going to get cut.
Speaking of the Brat Pack, Rob, you recently reunited with Andrew McCarthy for the first time in 25 years to discuss your shared experience of being part of that infamous group. What was it like for you to watch back the way he presented and reframed a lot of your own experiences in his documentary “Brats”? How do you reflect on that period of your life now?
Rob: I look back at it with almost complete, 100% affection. It feels kind of quaint. It’s such a specific moment in time, a moment in my life, a particular moment in terms of movies that people were making and were interested in. I’m super, super grateful that I got to be a part of it, and also super grateful that people are still interested and that we’re having this conversation about it, which is leading people back to watching those movies, which I loved being in.
What is it like for you to revisit those films now?
John Owen: I’ll answer for him: He loves it. He loves watching himself. He doesn’t care how old he is in the project. He’s face-blind to anybody but Rob Lowe. He lives for it.
How’s that? Did I do a good job?
Rob: I would say there are elements that are accurate.
Rob, you recently wrapped production on the fifth — and potentially final — season of “9-1-1: Lone Star,” which will kick off with a three-episode train derailment. What else can we expect from the new season?
Rob: We all went into it pretty much knowing that it was going to be the last season, so that affected everything we did. We wanted to really show everybody what is still possible in network television if people have the appetite to do it. It feels like it’s probably the end of an era of a certain type — well, it doesn’t feel like it. It is the end of an era of a certain type of show we once had an opportunity to make, and I think they’re great. We wanted to go out making our case for the value of shows like that, and I think we did a really good job. The stories that we were able to tell on a weekly basis in terms of the scope and scale — that’s probably the thing I’m the most proud of. They were truly like mini-movies every week.
One of the most common critiques of “Lone Star,” since its premiere in 2020, has been the way that the show has consistently underused minority characters in order to center your character, Owen. Rob, you’re an executive producer in addition to the star. John Owen, you were a writer for the first three seasons. How would you both respond to that criticism? Was that ever a concern when you were writing or producing the show?
John Owen: [Deadpans] I can tell you confidently, it was never a concern of Rob’s.
But no, I think, look, everyone’s always going to have a take on what it must be like internally, creatively, and usually, it’s not 100% percent accurate. And in this case, it’s not accurate at all. I was there when we were blue-skying Season 1 — and I want to preface this by saying I was starting out as a very green, new writer and learned from some of the best. It was such a fun experience for me. Owen was always the central piece of the show. He was one of the mediums through which we got to tell stories about the other characters and built them out into such lovable characters that people got frustrated, maybe, when they didn’t have as much screen time.
I remember my first episode that I wrote, being so excited to tell the first story that really featured Mateo [played by Julian Works]. He and Marjan [Natacha Karam] have this beautiful storyline where she’s helping him study, and I think that was one of the first times we learned Julian was a throwdown actor. And then we were like, “Great, let’s write to him.” So I know, at least from the room’s perspective, we were learning strengths and then started leaning into them. I think in any case where a show has a strong ensemble, people always are going to be frustrated with maybe not seeing as much of their favorite characters as they’d like — and I think that’s a good thing. You always want to leave people wanting more.
Rob: I think when [creators] Ryan [Murphy], [Brad] Falchuk and Tim Minear came to me, they were very clear about what they wanted to accomplish with the show. They imagined a show centered around the only survivor of a terrible tragedy in 9/11 and him rebuilding a firehouse, but also rebuilding his family. And in terms of playing time, I think that they did a really good job.
I don’t think there is another show on television with as diverse a cast as we had, telling the kind of diverse stories that we did. Owen was there as a way to tell those kinds of stories and I’m really proud of how we were able to do it.
The first two seasons of “Unstable” are now streaming on Netflix. “9-1-1: Lone Star” premieres Sept. 23 on Fox.
