“Frankly, I’m exhausted,” SAG-AFTRA president Fran Drescher told PvNew minutes after the union disclosed the ratification vote tally that sealed the deal on its hard-fought new three-year contract.
Drescher and Duncan Crabtree-Ireland, SAG-AFTRA’s union’s national executive director and chief negotiator, took a moment to reflect Tuesday evening on the winding road that led the union to wage its first strike in more than 40 years, as well as the high-stakes negotiations with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers and studio chiefs that produced the deal.
For nearly four months, SAG-AFTRA’s indefatigable duo were the face of the 118-day strike by the union’s 160,000 members. Despite a healthy debate during the ratification vote period over whether the protections achieved around AI were significant enough to protect actors in the future, Drescher and Crabtree-Ireland say the larger achievements of the contract are unequivocally game-changing for Hollywood.
“It really sets the stage for a whole new era in our negotiations and probably other union negotiations too,” Crabtree-Ireland said.
SAG-AFTRA Ratifies Contract, Officially Ending Historic Labor Dispute
In a wide-ranging Q&A, Drescher throws ice water on the question of whether she intends to use her new platform as a labor leader to pursue elected office. Crabtree-Ireland addresses questions about how the contracts new streaming bonus residual will be divvied up among actors who work for streaming platforms. And both explain in fine detail how the new contract that runs through June 30, 2026, will deliver immediate benefits to working actors.
It took a long and hard battle to get to this ratification vote. How do you feel now that’s all done?
Fran Drescher: I feel very thrilled that we can now enjoy the fruits of our labor. This was a long haul and a great deal of blood, sweat and tears. And I appreciate all the people that worked so hard to educate our members to understand what a seminal deal this actually is, and how it is going to shift the paradigm and put us on a whole new trajectory.
Duncan Crabtree-Ireland: I’m also very, very pleased with this result. I think SAG-AFTRA is a true democracy. And there has been a robust dialogue going on over the last three weeks. To have that happen and have what I consider to be an overwhelmingly positive result — more than three-quarters of the votes cast in favor, with a huge turnout far in excess of any of our recent contract referendums with more than 55,000 members casting votes in this — it reflects a broad-based recognition by our members that deal is not only worthy of ratification, but really sets the stage for a whole new era in our negotiations and probably other union negotiations too. So while nothing is perfect, and collective bargaining is always a process, this is a very gratifying result that reflects a deeply educated membership who has taken the time to inform themselves about the key issues that we’ve addressed in this contract. Our members are going to start seeing the tangible benefits of it almost immediately from the point of view of minimums and things like that. And then as the other improvements in this contract, including self-tape provisions roll out over the coming weeks, people will really appreciate what our negotiating committee and Fran and our staff have accomplished.
The overall tenor of the debate over this deal has made it clear that SAG-AFTRA members are still really fearful of being replaced by AI. Is that your impression?
Crabtree-Ireland: I think people in our society in general are fearful of that and we were all concerned about it. I was just at a panel last week in Washington DC touching on the very topic hosted by Senator Chuck Schumer talking about the issues surrounding protections that have been put in place at a governmental level regarding the implementation of AI, so it is it’s it’s definitely a topic that is of legitimate concern. And I think there’s some fear around it. But what our members ultimately recognized is that the protections that are negotiated in this contract are groundbreaking. They’re far in excess of any protections anybody else has is any agreements or in any kind of regulations or statutes at this point. What we will actually see is that this is the beginning of a process by which a whole set of puzzle pieces are put together to create the kind of future of AI that we all need to see. To me, part of that concern was really about something far broader than what we can even address in collective bargaining, but [the fear] is understandable. I also think it’s important that members really educated themselves and got past that and voted for this agreement because without it, there wouldn’t be those protections in place and I think that’s really, what a lot of members recognized is that the perfect can’t be the enemy of the good and that collective bargaining is a process. This sets up a structure for us to really continue to evolve protections that relate to artificial intelligence in the future, and I think people see that.
Drescher: We went from ground zero where our members had no control and no say. The nightmarish stories that we were hearing from our members who would get a job and then be like pulled off to go get scanned, and they didn’t know what they were being scanned for. And they didn’t know what it was about, and the employers had the misconception that they could use that in perpetuity. That’s where we started. And now with the ratification of this contract, we have put this entirely into the membership’s hands. They are now in the driver’s seat. If they’re offered a job and it involves any kind of AI, it has to be very clearly articulated what the AI will be used for. They will be compensated, and they will only be for that one job. Never to be used again, unless they’re willing to grant consent for compensation. Again, that is all a different stratosphere. It’s a whole new ballgame. It puts our members completely in the driver’s seat.
You are still pursuing AI legislation in Sacramento and the No Fakes Act in Washington which would go much further in terms of establishing an intellectual property right or a moral right to your performance. Is that the next priority for you, to get that done next year?
Crabtree-Ireland: That’s not something new. We already have a bill in Congress. We have a bill in the Senate, the No Fakes act. There’s a companion piece being introduced in the House and then we have legislation in the California legislature. So we started working on a legislative and public policy strategy around AI even before this negotiation began. It’s important for people to know that it’s all part of the bigger picture and what we’ve achieved in this contract negotiation isn’t the only thing. It is a hugely important part but it is part of a broader strategy that includes public policy and legislative action, including at the international level. This is something that’s going to take time but that we have been very engaged on. I’m really proud of that, because we have looked around the curve and prepared ourselves to act very expeditiously. And if you take a look at what’s going on in the broader world, I don’t see anyone outside of the AI companies themselves who is more prepared to help further this discussion and to help find solutions to protect not just our members, but workers in general. The AFL-CIO is on board with that agenda. So are other unions in this industry. And I expect that you’ll see those topics coming up in the upcoming bargaining that other unions have with the AMPTP in the coming months.
Have you heard from any of the lawyers involved in the major federal AI lawsuits or public policy makers since the AI terms of the contract were unvealed? Have you had feedback from other Hollywood unions on the significance of the AI precedents set in your contract?
Crabtree-Ireland: We’ve had conversations with our sibling unions about the contract terms.
Drescher: [SAG-AFTRA general counsel] Jeffrey Bennett is extremely educated in this. He’s the one that is really leading everything in Washington. And you know, he spoke very eloquently that we are protected in spite of what some people might have expressed fear about but from people who really understand the language of the law, and really understand the ins and outs of AI through all kinds of legislative efforts, we felt very confident that the new language that never existed before is more than sufficient to get us through the next two and a half years. And it also includes that we’re going to be meeting with the AMPTP members at least twice a year to keep our finger on the pulse of what is happening, what we’re experiencing, what they’re experiencing. And then to also start working together and lock elbows in what we need to do as a consolidated effort when we go to Washington and try to put legislation in place against pirating and all kinds of things like that.
On the streaming bonus fund, have you thought about just general principles and in terms of how broadly that money is going to be distributed? Whatever you do in that arena is going to have to be safe from litigation from people who are going to feel left out no matter how you divide up the money.
Crabtree-Ireland: We’ve started having initial conversations but ultimately, the new committee, the TV/Theatrical Standing Committee, which will be comprised of many of the members of this negotiating committee, will be working over the coming weeks to formulate the recommendation regarding the distribution guidelines. We can say for certain that the money will be for people working on those streaming platforms. So it won’t be distributed beyond that. Group of actors and performers, but it won’t be limited to the shows that are part of the 75% of shows that reach that threshold of 20% viewership. The exact distribution details are still to be worked out.
Drescher: The most important thing is that we carved a new pathway of making money that we can keep renegotiating and improving upon. If I had my druthers, everybody that is on streaming platforms needs to make more money in the way that they did when it was just linear television and syndication. But that’s what we hope — that this is going to carve a path towards something that we could start to get our hooks into more money, and they understand that was necessary.
Is there a timeframe for when the fund is actually going to issue its first check?
Crabtree-Ireland: We don’t know that specifically yet because the guidelines have to be completed but the incoming funds will be there. So as soon as that process is complete and set up, then we’ll begin rolling out payments for the time period covered by the contract. The logistical part of getting the fund up and running won’t prevent people from receiving money for the covered periods during that time.
Fran, looking back on the last four months, leading this strike has got to be one of the most meaningful things you’ve done in your life. It’s a historic moment that you’ve been at the absolute center of. As you reflect, what are you most taking away from this moment in your life?
Drescher: Well…I like to think of myself as living a purposeful life. And I always try and turn lemons into lemonade, pain into purpose and use my strengths in leadership on behalf of the greater good. And it seems like I’ve always done that, on reflection, with whatever opportunities I’ve been faced with or adversities. So I feel proud that I rose to the occasion. I’m frankly exhausted.
Look, I’ve been famous for a long time but now when I just flew in today to New York and everywhere I go in the airport, people are thanking me. And not because of ‘The Nanny’ anymore, but because of what I did as a labor leader. It is an amazing feeling of triumph in this for me who comes from such a humble beginning. But I was raised with a sense of morality, and a belief in the middle class and the working class and unions. And it’s a nice, full circle that I should have taken all of my achievements in my life, and that it somehow came to this one defining moment. And it was a crowning achievement not for me, but for us all.
Can I press you more specifically, Fran. You have become a prominent face and voice of a resurgent organized labor movement that is historic for the country. Is this something that you want to take into the political sphere, or the public policy or the civic leadership sphere? Is this opening up a new career path for you, potentially?
Drescher: I’ve been engaged in aspects of that for decades now. I would rather be able to express enlightened points of view on a myriad of issues as a new version of Barbara Walters than to actually go into the lion’s den in Congress. I just don’t know if I have the stomach for all the haters and liars and people that will do anything to win and really aren’t coming from a loving and honest heart. I don’t know how some of these people endure that. They must have a stronger stomach than me. I just I fear that it would not be joyful being around people who do the wrong thing for their own selfish purposes.
You’ve both mentioned that this contract cycle has opened up a new chapter in the union’s history. After its first strike in more than 40 years, where does SAG-AFTRA stand as a union and as an organization?
Drescher: We entered this negotiation as the largest entertainment union in the world and we exited as the most powerful. We will never be thought of as peons again. They’re going to have to be answerable to us in a whole different way. And they’re going to have to ask themselves if they do something [in business] that is not going to go over well with the unions, they’re going to have to consider that before diving in. The time has come for them to know that they’re actually in business with us. Prior to this contract negotiation, I don’t think that our feelings or our needs were considered in the least. only the very top percentile of [actors] that they actually feel like they need because they’re headliners.
Crabtree-Ireland: From my point of view, I would say that this does position us in a different way, because I think the industry is now clear that our members are willing to go on strike if necessary in order to ensure that fair contract terms are the result of these negotiations. I certainly believed we weren’t going to need to go on strike, that the companies would do what it took to make the deal without us having to go on strike. That didn’t end up being the case, and the strike absolutely ended up being necessary in order to achieve the agreement that our members needed. And I hope that that won’t be the case next time. Anyone in the companies who doubted our resolve, as Fran remembers, I told them from day one of negotiations not to underestimate the resolve of our members. I told them repeatedly. I think they did underestimate the resolve of our members, but I think that won’t be the case going forward. And I also believe that this strike and the resulting contract will result in even greater member engagement with the union. And I think that makes us stronger. So I’m very excited to see what happens over the next few years as we deploy the kind of member engagement and the clear unity and resolve that our members have shown. I’m excited about that.
Drescher: [Hollywood studios] never had to deal with leadership like Duncan and me. This is our first term in our positions. I don’t think that they thought it was going to be anything different from what they were used to. But they think but they learned the hard way that it was a whole different ballgame. And until they really seriously leaned in, this was going to go on for a longer time than it would have. And it did.
(Pictured: SAG-AFTRA president Fran Drescher and Duncan Crabtree-Ireland, national executive director and chief negotiator)
